Questions
Is Tom Brady still a top 5 quarterback?
In both fantasy and real football?
  • 1
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    TOM BRADY IS A SOLID GOLD WINNING MACHINE.
  • 0
    Mark Hallman (500 Reputation Points)
    Top 5, I would have to say no. I'd have Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Luck and Wilson ahead of him. He just doesn't have the weapons around him anymore. Peyton and Brees are both on the back side of their careers like Brady, but they have a surplus of offensive weapons around them. I think it's pretty clear that Rodgers is the Brady of the next generation. And Luck & Wilson's combination of passing ability, running ability and weapons around them, give them the nod over Brady. Plus the AFCE is rapidly getting better.
  • 0
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    ATL was 23rd ranked defense* - Typo there
    2 Comments
    JJ Zachariason (411 Reputation Points)
    Sorry, accidently hit enter. I wrote about Brady here: https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/1539/no-tom-brady-isn-t-the-nfl-s-mvp and here: https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/1686/why-quarterback-wins-are-irrelevant
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    Yes I read your articles. But my argument is that Brady is a top 5 QB in the NFL, not fantasy. All do respect (I think NEP is a great metric for fantasy), there are a lot more factors that go into winning a football game than NEP. You can’t say wins are irrelevant, because that is ultimately how each team’s success is measured in the NFL (i.e. Raheem Morris: “Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats, we’ll keep worrying about wins”). To not give Brady credit is like saying the driver of a racecar doesn’t deserve credit for winning a race because all he did was push a pedal and turn a wheel. No one has the success that Brady has for an entire decade without being considered one of the best. Yes, you can make the argument that Brady shouldn’t have been MVP last year, but, you can also argue for just as easily. Tom Brady had 5 game winning drives last year alone (almost 40 on his career btw)… he literally won 5 games. So instead of going 12-4 with Brady, the Pats go 7 and 9 on the season without Brady. This is the reason why he was in the conversation for MVP. You can say that wins aren’t relevant to fantasy, which is correct, but you can’t say that he isn’t a top 5 QB in the NFL, because when the game comes down to last drive, he can and will pull it off.
  • 0
    Eamonn Choukrane (665 Reputation Points)
    Nope.
  • -1
    Kacee Giger (624 Reputation Points)
    In fantasy, he's not a top-5 QB anymore as he doesn't have enough weapons and they are running more every year. In real football, the "still" implies that he once was a top-5 QB, which I'm not so sure he's ever been more than just successful because of the system he's in (the Patriots' offense didn't miss a beat with Matt Cassel running the show a few years back so that says a lot for me).
    12 Comments
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    Right... go ahead and discount one of the best quaterbacks in history because of the "system" he is in. Using that logic you could say that Dan Marino sucked because he never won a superbowl.
    Mister Milus (500 Reputation Points)
    the system? did they make the playoffs that year? i bet they would have if brady wasnt injured.
    Kacee Giger (624 Reputation Points)
    Agreed, no one would argue that Superbowl winning QB Trent Dilfer was better than Marino as that would be as foolish as arguing that Brady was better than Peyton because of a couple more SB wins (and no one does that). I'm just saying the legendary Matt Cassel led the Patriots to an 11-5 record and had similar stats as Brady will have the following year when he returns from injury. Brady may have the stats and the three rings, but I've just never drank the koolaid on him being a great QB.
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    Think of it from this perspective. How many other quarterbacks in the NFL do you realistically think could have taken the Patriots to an AFC championship, given all the injuries on both offense and defense, as well as the fact that the majority of his receivers were rookies. Kembrell Thompkins was undrafted and became fantasy relevant for a period of time. If that's not what a top 5 QB does i dont know what is.
    Kacee Giger (624 Reputation Points)
    I guess that's just where we'll have to agree to disagree. I just can't see how that team wouldn't have done as well or better with a Peyton\Brees\Rodgers making the throws or have been more dynamic with a dual threat QB like Newton\Wilson\Kaepernick running the show. Maybe even a Roethlisburger or Matt Ryan could have done better, but we'll never know. There's players like Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, and Peyton Manning that you just know you could stick them on any team and they'd succeed. Tom Brady might also be on that list, but I've never felt that way and never more so than watching him live in Week 6 of 2012. I don't know how it looked on TV, but his receivers (he had Welker, Gronk, Hernandez all healthy) were wide open all day and he had little pass rush, but was consistently missing guys all day. He had a good day according to the stats (395 yards, 2 TD), but if someone had asked a newbie to the NFL who was the rookie starting his 6th NFL game (rushing throws, missing open targets, throwing two interceptions), they would have picked Brady over Russell Wilson every time. I know he'll go down as one of the all time greats, just not in my book.
    Ed O'Toole (441 Reputation Points)
    No
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    You’re out of your mind if you think anyone other than Peyton, Brees or Rodgers could even come close to pulling off what Brady did last season, which confirms that Brady is well within the top 5 QBs in the league. At minimum, he would be 4th, and most people argue he is the 2nd best QB in the league only behind Manning. It’s the reason why every time the Pats and Broncos play they hype the hell out of it. Because they are arguable two of the best quarterbacks of ALL TIME. I mean just look at the numbers. The Pats had the 22nd ranked defense in the league, and yet came in 7th in offense - with the worst supporting cast Brady has ever had in his career. Cam Newton, with the 4th ranked defense and a comparable offense, managed to climb his way offensively to 24th. Matt Ryan, with the 2rd ranked defense and also a comparable offense, proved to be half as good as Brady, since he only took his team to the 14th ranked offense. And Big Ben, are you even serious? The last time they had a winning season was in 2011. You can sit there and say “I just don’t see it” but really you should be saying “I’m just biased” because not only is Brady firmly in the top 5 of the NFL today, but will be in the conversation for top 5 in history.
    JJ Zachariason (411 Reputation Points)
    Actually, according to our metrics, Brady and Ryan were insanely similar, which is why the hate for Ryan was kind of ridiculous. I wrote about Brady
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    you do realize that the Faclons went 4-12 last season right? I mean, i get how a bad team can have fantasy value. But there isnt a team in the NFL that would rather have Matt Ryan over Tom Brady.
    Kacee Giger (624 Reputation Points)
    I'd argue that because of the age difference (8 years) and potential, EVERY team in the NFL (including the Patriots) would rather have Matt Ryan over Tom Brady.
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    Oh now your just Trolling
    Gregg Gregg (276 Reputation Points)
    Quick comparison from Ryan to Brady during the first 6 seasons: Ryan has taken the Falcons into the postseason 4 times and in his best year, the Falcons lost the in conference championship. Brady, after his 6th season in the NFL, had gone to the playoffs 4 times and won three superbowls. Also, he wasn’t even a starter his first year, so really, in 5 years, he went to the playoffs 4 times and won the superbowl in 3 of them. Point I’m making is, despite age, EVERY team in the NFL would rather have Brady because he is much better than Ryan. He was when he was younger and still is now.
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